14c28n steel vs d2
However the 14c28n steel would be great for an EDC knife with typical usage. Mostly it has been presented piecemeal with all of the studies that we have done on optimizing heat treatments of different steels like CPM-CruWear, AEB-L, 52100, etc. I was wondering if the 14c28n sample was also prequenched like the AEB-L toughness samples? D2 steel is high carbon steel with no extra addition of Cr or Mo, that's why it is prone to corrosion. Here, we will discuss edge retention, toughness, ease of sharpening, and corrosion resistance. We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a device. Is it similar but worse or better at one of the 3 things? A European powder-metal steel used in higher-end knives, Elmax has an advanced formula, and the result is a very good all-around steel, a generation ahead of formulations like 154CM. Hit like and all t. Steels 7Cr and below arent worth your time or money. Your email address will not be published. It is among the best steel that will offer exceptional toughness while still maintaining excellent corrosion resistance. Spyderco offers this as the high-end steel for many of its evergreen blades, like the Paramilitary 2, Paramilitary 3, Manix 2, and Native 5. Copper frame are very sturdy and machine well and take the best patina over time. I am just grasping at straws here, but from the data you shared, it seems like toughness does increase faster than edge retention decreases: it is harder to get a very high edge retention knife that will still be somewhat tough compared to a very tough knife that will still hold an edge ok. So you can estimate how much a change in hardness would affect edge retention by following the slope of those lines. And Mn and Si isnt shown at all for the high alloy steels, even though those elements are added to all of them. There you said 7.6 for 420HC. Hi there, You also reported 8.6 for 440A in that post, compared to 8.5 in this post. The 25 dps sharpened knife saw almost no edge damage with 2 ft-lbs while a 15 dps edge saw a significant chip with only 0.3 ft-lbs and catastrophic chipping with 1.4 ft-lbs. They represent the absolute best performers on the market in terms of their specific attributes. And below shows a chart of carbide hardness, the equation we created to predict edge retention based on edge angle, hardness, and carbide volumes, and then the chart showing the good correlation: TCC (mm) = -157 + 15.8*Hardness (Rc) 17.8*EdgeAngle() + 11.2*CrC(%) + 14.6*CrVC(%) + 26.2*MC(%) + 9.5*M6C(%) + 20.9*MN(%) + 19.4*CrN(%). In addition, According to Sandvik, 14C28N steel is easy to work on, reducing production costs and hence affordable knives. 14c28n vs. AUS-8 Steel My name is Jonathan M, and Im a passionate Mechanical Engineer, a knife enthusiast, and the author of this website. 8Cr13MoV vs D2 Steel what's the difference? - Honey Badger Knives Is that accurate? MagnaCut has the lowest chromium of any of the below steels but all of its chromium is in solution (no chromium carbide) and the fact that it has no chromium carbide also gives it the maximum level of corrosion resistance for a given amount of chromium. That provides 14% Chromium and offers excellent corrosion resistance. 420 Simple, non-stainless steels of medium carbon content like 5160 also boast high toughness. It also improves edge retention and strength. I havent tested Sleipner yet. Below shows pictures of a 61 Rc knife that was impacted with a 3/16 rod at different energy levels. A few steels have been added since such as MagnaCut and M398. 14c28n steel has a high Chromium and Carbon percentage. They lack the carbon necessary to hold an edge, even during mild use. The solid lockup and decent blade design make these two knives well suited for camping. at least it has some vanadium over the 420hc. Its possible that there are steel manufacturers with better processing which would lead to an even carbide distribution but I cant say that without seeing it for myself. Sandvik 14C28N Knife Steel Review: Is This a Good Knife? AEB-L is a non-powder steel produced by Swedish steelmaker Uddeholm. CROMOVA Some steels are more difficult to manufacture for the steel company or have more expensive alloying elements so the cost is increased. GiantMouse Vox/Anso ACE Iona Liner Lock Knife, Muley Freaks Erik Van Woerkom Charged With Felony Possession of Trophy Mule Deer, The Biggest Improvement to My Camp Kitchen Is a Mini Pizza Oven (But Not for Pizza), Propane Traeger, Moosejaw Coolers, Hybrid HOKAs, Adventure Chess, and More Emerging Gear, Avalanche Outside British Columbia Resort Buries 10, Kills 3 Heli-Skiers, Netflix Unveils First Trailer for Tour de France Series. Read our full Sobata 398 review here. What is pulling that line high and to the right? The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. what does a cvn of 40 v.s 20 mean? BD1 isnt terribly hard but sharpens easily. D2 holds it for longer. Thats a pretty large difference in two budget steels that are often compared to each other. That comes with an excellent return of experience that makes it ideal for the manufacturer of outdoor and tactical knife blades. And a label: AEB-L. Generally seen as a slight upgrade to the 440C/VG-10/ATS-34 caliber of steel, its a decent all-around steel with good corrosion resistance, decent toughness, and only modest hardness. The ESEE had significant edge damage while the MagnaCut knife did not. The study of steel is now so complex and nuanced that one can acquire a graduate degree in the subject and still learn new things every day. Or even if they try to be more open to importance of toughness, the good reputation of the high edge retention steels means that they get inflated toughness ratings along with it. Knives are one of our oldest tools, so it makes sense that they have evolved into thousands of styles since the first person chipped one out of stone. Why does Maxamet and Rex 121 stay the same tcc but Zmax drops and 15v goes from below 900 to over? It isnt impossible, but contrast may not be very good and the austenitizing temperatures of the two steels arent very compatible. D2 steel knives, on the other hand, offer great edge retention and wear resistance, which are properties of tool steels.14C28ND2Toughness93.5Edge retention35Corrosion resistance8.54.5Ease of sharpeningEasyModerately Hard14C28N vs D2. 14c28n steel would be a great pick thanks to its high retention and corrosion, it would be great for a normal EDC knife. After the steel is quenched it is reheated to a lower temperature to increase toughness and decrease hardness. Using 10 dps sharpening (20 degrees inclusive on the chart) leads to about 5x the edge retention of 25 dps. In this article, we will discuss the characteristics, pros, cons, and differences between 14C28N and D2 knives to help to make the right choice. If you want to learn more about a specific steel, you can click it in the sorted listings below. 14C28N knives offer excellent corrosion resistance and toughness. then you have zirconia and diamond coated blades. One is certainly anti-China bias, as you pointed out. He is the mind and writer behind Knife Steel Nerds, the go-to source for all knowledge about knife steel. Hes already done a three part series on cryogenic treatment: Sorry, most of my previous comment was borderline word salad. H2 The 10V specimens tempered at 1000F were 4-5 ft-lbs while the specimens tempered at 4-500F were 7-8 ft-lbs. And Ive done a lot of experimental work on knife steels where I feel more confident in my own ratings. My favorites of the high edge retention group are Vanadis 8 and CPM-10V. D2 has been around for more than 20 years, an eternity in. 14C28N knives will handle challenging and demanding applications without chipping, cracking, or breaking. Manage Settings Tough steel can handle impacts without gross chipping or a tip breaking off. But SM100 is not widely available, hard to heat treat and grind, and exceptionally expensive. Everything you need to know to buy the right knife for the job. Spyderco has produced several production knives with Maxamet, and the steel debuted on the ZT0888. the problem is in the innumerable combinations of grades, grains sizes and coatings available. Therefore I will be showing the ratings of the steels graphically in terms of toughness-edge retention balance, where steels that are high and to the right have the best combination, and you choose the steel based on the level of toughness or edge retention necessary for the knife. https://www.patreon.com/Knifesteelnerds, Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window). But which? There are significant differences between them because 14C28N is stainless steel, while D2 steel is a semi-stainless tool steel. vanax Continue with Recommended Cookies. we dont know. Another important caveat before we get to the ratings are that these are for the steel only. It wont hang long with high-end powder metal steels(a method of making steel using ultra-pure micrograins of steel that are heated and pressed together). This doesnt necessarily mean they have terrible toughness, but they have limitations. With recommended hardness range of 55-62 HRC; the 14C28N is great for knife applications which place very high demands on edge sharpness, edge stability and corrosion resistance such as chefs knives, hunting knife, pocket knives and fishing knives. . What makes 1.4116 such a bad performer in regards to toughness on par with ultra high carbide steel like S125V? The maximum edge retention available in this group is not particularly high because most of the wear resistance comes from iron carbide, also called cementite, which is the softest of the different carbide types. Here, we break down how to choose a flashlight, including best flashlight LEDs, batteries, designs, and more. Many steels are very similar to one another but go by different names from different manufacturers. However, the relative difference in toughness between these different examples are similar. D2 knives offer higher edge retention than 14C28N knives, which is attributed to the high carbon elements and hardness of D2. . As wear resistance is increased the differences between conventional and powder metallurgy steels become greater. The both blade are equally wear resistant. 8cr13mov if proper slicing geometry its good budget steel if you dont rust it and no prying or screwing its ok cutting steel. The D2 steel compares nicely with 14c28n steel in terms of edge retention, as it's quite hard as well. Note:There is a powder-metal version called CPM154 thats purer than the non-powder version, making it easier for knifemakers to grind. Im not hating on 80crv2 , Ive used it. Oftentimes steels that are reported to be difficult to sharpen are in fact improperly heat treated and challenging to deburr. Actually, Id be thinking 14C28N, but I want to leave stainless out. Its a very hard steel and is exceptionally difficult to sharpen. Rex 121 23.5% vanadium carbide, 4% molybdenum/tungsten carbide (M6C), Conventional Ingot vs Powder Metallurgy Carbide Structure. Stainless steels are more resistant to corrosion but remember that stainless steels stain less, and most of them will still rust in the right conditions. Here is the article by Larrin on 48 steels. Its probably in between Vanadis 8 and 10V. Privacy Policy. And easy to sharpen in our experience; and that will get an excellent razor edge that lasts for a reasonable price of time. However, it is not really known how many different companies are making 8Cr13MoV (or at least I dont know), it could be that it is one manufacturer that is dominating the market. I cant seem to match steel to the SS data points on the toughness/tcc graph. Its not bad, but you can find better in the market at the same price. Who looking for latest, high carbon, then the Kershaw Natrix Copper Pocketknife. Cookie Notice Knife Steels Rated by a Metallurgist - Toughness, Edge Retention, and I have a (relatively) short introduction before getting into the ratings with a few important things to put them into context. Other factors include how thick your edge is, how dull your knife was at the start, the nature of the heat treatment, and what youre using to sharpen your knife. I have a Spyderco K390 knife and I cut leather with it as it is only .090 thick and I seldom have to strop it on 1 micron diamond compound on leather. What is the Best Budget Knife Steel? - Knife Steel Nerds The bump in hardness comes from precipitation of fine carbides in the steel, which include chromium carbides. CN Vs VG-10 The Japanese steel, VG10 offers slightly higher edge retention but has the same level of hardness as 14C28N. And before you start arguing on behalf of the steel you think might be perfect, let me remind you that if your knife isnt perfect for a task, youll need to get another one that is! What would you rate the toughness of CPM-D2. 1060 . There seem to be a lot of modern steels that get related to D2, but OTOH just saying a steel is similar to D2 seems to kill interest in it. 14c28n vs vg10: What's The Best Steel - Knifeyellowpages Low Carbon steels like AEB-L wont hold up to wood cutting even though it can hit 64 hard, it just doesnt have enough Carbon. 1. If you shop for knives based strictly on steel, you might be disappointed. No mainstream companies use SM100, and the niche makers that do usually charge more than $1,000 for knives with SM100 blades. In many cases, the D2 edge sharpness may last a bit longer. More expensive powder metallurgy steels in this category include M390, CPM-S35VN, Elmax, CTS-XHP, CPM-S30V, and CPM-154. As to a difference between 8.6 and 8.5, all of the ratings here are rounded to the nearest 0.5 because better than that probably shows false precision. It is an excellent steel that in the right hands has proven to produce high performing blades. Its very hard, tough, and corrosion-resistant. In other words, heat treating a steel to its maximum hardness does not necessarily mean reduced corrosion resistance. It can dull your edge, cause pitting, and damage the structural integrity of your knife. 14C28N and D2 steel are not the same. How Is 14C28N Steel for Knives? One of the more common stainless steels, and one readily available in lots of different places worldwide, AUS-8 is a decent all-around steel. Lets talk about the clip-on pocket knife. False treatment and geometry upheld by Made in USA is like buying 8Cr from China (except late A.G) My personal experience tops with Vanadis 4E, CPM-M4, RWL-34 and the likes. Not every wood is soft pine. H1 Its used for combat knives, bushcrafting knives, and other applications where having a supertough blade trumps the need for edge retention and corrosion resistance. Why wouldnt it be possible to make a damascus steel out of (say) AEB-L and s90V, or wouldnt that gain the best of both? However, even in this case there is the complicating factor of carbide and abrasive hardness. Theyll be fully attributed to you with website and Patreon links, obviously. 2. Thats a little too far, but you get the point.). Been here before? If you look at the chart you may notice that at high toughness levels if you increase edge retention by only a relatively small amount you get very big drops in toughness. There is buzz out there but I havent seen anything solid yet in the world of steel. When it comes to handle material, both knives have options available in either plastic or metal. Steel produced in China is generally less expensive. 20? Most of these steels are carbon steels, except for CPM MagnaCut (the fancy steel cooked up specifically for knives by Dr. Thomas), which has excellent corrosion resistance. Because of its abrasion-eating hardness, knives with REX 121 come at an exceptionally high price. What is AUS10A Steel? - knife Insight A cryo treatment and close temperature control is necessary to achieve those hardness levels. I feel like it sharpens as easy as D2. I have the average composition of the steels rated above (plus some extras) so you can see what the different names refer to. 3) catra is (as far as i know) the only accredited (iso/en) testing method. Combination of knife steel properties. Used in knives since at least World War II, 1095 performance varies considerably with an abundance of tweaks in the recipe and heat treat. Steel is a combination of iron and carbon with other elements. Compared to the AUS10A, the D2 has a longer legacy since it's been around since 1918. If you're stuck between 14C28N and 440C, here's a breakdown of the pros and cons of each type of steel. (I think the 420HC estimate in that post was based on simulation or computer modeling, since you didnt spray testing any of the 400 series.) I mean the box cutter type, with the replaceable trapezoidal blades. The critical difference between these two sheets of steel is their corrosion resistance. It is most useful for steels with large amounts of carbide but also helps to be able to add certain carbide types. Vanadium carbides are among the hardest that form in steel, and chromium carbides are in between iron carbide and vanadium carbide. Like S90V, its a high-hardness steel, but its more balanced than S90V. So what is the best steel for knives? Its very similar chemically to RWL 34 and ATS-34. This is a virtually stain-proof steel suitable for all sorts of aquatic environments. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. FRN I do not have rust issues with it (as long as I have a good finish) some heavy stonewashed finishes rust easier. 14% of Chromium: Increases corrosion resistance and wear resistance. Sure if you dont want stainless steel fine, but there are plenty other carbon steels out there much better than 5160. Hi Larrin Your estimate of 420HCs corrosion resistance is different here than in your October, 2019 post on corrosion resistance testing: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/10/14/corrosion-resistance-testing/ I also have a video that summarizes some of the information below while also showing how some of the experiments work. This is about comparing steels to each other rather than a limitation of an individual steel. Around 61 Rc usually. On the other hand, edge stability in terms of micro chipping and edge folding is also good. 14C28N knives are easier to sharpen than D2 knives. 7:00am-5:00pm, 10am-7pm Tuesday - Friday MC66 I have not provided a rating for ease in sharpening. For the steels that I rated I give them a single rating rather than a range based on different heat treatments that can be performed. Most steels use carbon to increase hardness, but 14C28N uses nitrogen, boosting hardness without the normal penalty of increased corrosion. The best scenario is when the steel, heat treatment, and geometry are selected for the knife and the use. Read more. -> Maybe prequenched 14c28n could be a little tougher than AEB-L? The Complete Guide to Knife and Tool Steels - Heinnie Haynes Edge Retention Test! 14c28n vs VG10 blade steel comparison - YouTube Very obtuse edges resist chipping better but dont hold their edge as long and dont cut as well. The 14C28N, on the other hand, is tougher. Its very corrosion-resistant and quite tough. The steel comes with increased wear and abrasion resistance properties. This is to keep the focus on the elements that are making the biggest difference. This steel, as the name implies has a professional styling to it. Steels patina in the acid at varying rates which allows for one steel to etch darker than the other and show that famous patterned contrast. The D2, on the other hand, has a thicker and more durable blade that is better suited for tough tasks like chopping wood or prying open cans. Rex 45 Theres a green triangle at about RC 60.5 and toughness over 40. Sandvik 14C28N Vs D2 Knife - edcTopic.com Thanks for the Article Larrin, Edge retention often refers to the ability of a knifes edge to maintain its sharpness during use. That said, it's not as tough as many other steels and exponentially tougher to sharpen. An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. Find your right answers here! On the other hand, 9cr18mov has a slightly higher molybdenum content which gives it higher hardness from quenching and helps drive carbide formation. In particular, I really care about the toughness / hardness part. The 1.4116 I tested has large carbides in it which is presumably the reason for low measured toughness: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/05/26/new-micrographs-of-42-knife-steels/. These steels are the good old hard-working steels. H1 and 420 also have excellent corrosion resistance but are limited to lower hardness and edge retention. Steels high in toughness are excellent for knives likely to see hard impacts, like large chopping knives. To reiterate the clearer part, I wonder if toughness increases faster than edge retention decreases as an edge gets thicker. while its a very intuitive method and a simple way to e.g. GearJunkie Copyright 2013 2023. The Best D2 Steel Knives And What Makes Them Great VG-1 is a non-powder steel made by Japanese specialty steelmaker Takefu. The claim is that they align the blades edge, pushing any slightly rolled over bits back into place and thus preserving the cutting ability of the knife for longer. S110V has improved corrosion resistance at the cost of some toughness compared to S90V. 14c28n is the most popular material for the knife: stainless steel and made by the Swedish company. Some of these steels also have vanadium (CruForgeV) or tungsten (Blue Super, V-Toku2, 1.2519) for increased wear resistance. We looked at common steels used by popular knife brands to help you select the right material for your blade. Corrosion is not only cosmetic. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/05/01/testing-the-edge-retention-of-48-knife-steels/, Unfortunately it all comes down to marketing on everybody involved: Industry, knifemakers, users. Interesting. You can read an article I wrote on budget steels here. The chart below has dotted lines which indicate the average effect of hardness for any given steel. On the other hand, these types of steel provide high wear resistance and toughness. Vancron has a very fine microstructure so it would be tough to beat. Wear resistance, be it high or low, is the most significant determining factor in ease of sharpening. It is an upgrade of 12C27, and 13C26 steel initially used to make blades for shaving razors. Also many hardwoods will dull planer blades just because theyre more dense. Later, it gets heated and compressed into one ingot. That is professionaly popular such as the Japanese designation SKD11, Uddeholm Sverker 21, German designation 1.2379, Hitachi SLD and others. I guess that was before I started reading. This guide explains important features to consider when buying a new knife for the outdoors. You can see micrographs of different knife steels to compare their carbides in this article. edge retention can vary by several orders of magnitude depending on what happens to the burr. D2 steel, on the other hand, is tool steel, and its knives shine on edge retention and wear resistance. Many steel ratings seem to over-emphasize edge retention. There one of the best reason that he is highly regarded as a knife designer. We all have our preference, but overall, preference leans towards the pocket knife with a clip. 14C28N is offered on midprice knives and is one of the better steels on a dollar-for-dollar basis. Flashlights run the gamut of price and quality. Is 14c28n A Good Knife Steel? [Complete Steel Guide] This is the steel used in Swiss Army knives and is excellent for beginner sharpeners. Below are some great ways to make your knife your own. REX 121 is a powder steel produced by Crucible. AR-RPM9 Ease of Sharpening: One advantage of 8Cr13MoV is that it is easier to sharpen than D2 steel. 14C28N Vs D2 . Thank you for putting this together, incredibly useful! Knife Steel Rust Testing 1095, 8Cr13Mov, D2, 420HC, Walmart - YouTube 14C28N steel holds good hardness. Powder metallurgy is a technology designed to maintain a small carbide size. Hello LARRIN, do you have a Rough estimate on when ApexUltra (as well as more Magnacut) will become available?