Perfect. Also available on Audible! I agree there is a fine line and I’m trying to live right on it. As a contemporary Stoic, you might make a point of seeing how long you can leave the air conditioning off on a summer day, or try hiking in bare feet instead of shoes occasionally to feel the land and force your feet to adapt to tougher conditions than a moisture-wicking merino wool hiking sock. I love MMM’s blog; I think that it’s primarily helpful for me now in residency when my income is much more similar to the majority of his readers as opposed to what it will be in a few years. I’m only a year out of residency but I can’t tell you how much better life is on the other side. Sure. And for that I think he is great. What a fantastic career! Constructive Criticism - Go! I got into it because of my wife. I also get a satisfaction knowing I can pull out by tool box and replace a faucet or drain, or figure out how to build a small cottage, or replace my car’s clutch or lower control arm. He's basically living on $25K a year and loving every minute of it. I read both blogs, although his is getting less and less as he only seems to post a few times a month now. Do those responses to what I wrote sound like they come from people who like their jobs? Gotta pay to play that one. Or working out. This seems to be your summary of what you really think is the MMM message: “Is it best to stuff as much money into investments as you can so you can be truly FI ASAP, or is it okay to spend some money on stuff that makes you happy?” This is a false choice, and a misrepresentation of the MMM message. MMM celebrates the joy of calling your own shots, and spending absolutely as much or as little time as you want with your family and your preferred activities. And that the consumerist impulse is toxic to true happiness. Mr. Money Mustache — Living Beautifully on $25-27K Per Year (#221) “You’re not supposed to optimize for money; you’re supposed to optimize for happiness.” – Mr. Money Mustache (AKA Pete Adeney) Mr. Money Mustache (@mrmoneymustache — Pete Adeney in real life) grew up in Canada in a family of mostly eccentric musicians. I agree that in many of my interactions with docs (today it was a doc several years out making $300K a year having trouble making ends meet) a different attitude toward spending would go a long, long way. Now he spends hours a day video-gaming. Brigham Young characterized the ideal day as 8 hours of work, 8 hours of recreation, and 8 hours of sleep. Even though I could retire now at 48, I think both of their approaches are hard to replicate. Do you think doctors CAN retire after 7 years? Even after paying 45% of that income in taxes, he's still way ahead. 2) Just like careers can evolve, or even change quickly, so can retirement. Then buy the house. The best part was hearing about how to create a cult and seeing the stuff that transfers over to here. Many people confuse between the two. $3K a day. Maybe I should watch the video you sent me. And I didn’t “zero in on a few minor points.” You numbered your primary critiques, 1-4. Today on the Financial Independence Podcast, I’m excited to share a live Q&A session with Mr. Money Mustache, Paula Pant from Afford Anything, and Doug Nordman from The Military Guide!. MMM might consider a 10 day trip to French Polynesia hedonistic but after working like a resident does the clear water makes you feel pretty good while sipping pineapple wine and looking at the most colorful fish in the world! The whole philosophy has nothing to do with hating one’s job.). They build their own cabins, chop their own wood for fuel, hunt their own food, and in general live completely off the grid. Pete (as long as he can hold on to his job) has the ability to keep working and maybe even buy low and ride a recovery up, a strategy that Mr. MMM has removed himself from. One of the things I most appreciate about having money is using it to make my life easier, meaning not needing to plan out nearly as many details and while traveling, being able to just eat that food we found instead of looking for cheaper food. By experimenting with voluntary discomfort, we learn to appreciate far more of our life, and can be content with a much simpler and more wholesome one. It’s not, especially if you’re truly Financially Independent. I don’t know. How to build wealth from nothing: 4 financial strategies, 4 ways to find what makes you happy and improve your relationship with money, Side hustles for financial independence: An expert's guide. My kid graduated Stanford as Phi Beta Kappa in medical ethics and health policy, aced the new MCAT (526—98th percentile), and my wife is first-generation Mexican, so kid gets to apply as a minority. I went golfing every day (the university course sold me an unlimited three-month pass for $100 or so.) Your email address will not be published. But guess what, I don't. I think MMM addresses Concern #3: Doing Things The Hard Way Is Not Always Better. You can buy a luxury car with a month’s earnings. Mr Money Mustache’s Contribution. If you’re going to take your taxes out before doing the calculation, why not your charitable contributions too? I spend money on things I like. For no purpose whatsoever except to see if he could do it. Even though I like Mr. Money Mustache, I don’t like most of the readers who comment on his blog. My kids are young and I want to enjoy that time, not work like a dog, then retire as soon as they graduate college! If you are using an extract kit you save maybe $40 bucks at best. It’s about having the freedom and independence to live a fulfilled life. What I like about WCI , especially more the past 6 months or so since he is loosening the purse strings, is that he is very much about moderation. But in personal finance, sometimes it is easier to cut expenses and sometimes it is easier to boost income. Â His newer posts are longer pieces, so devote 10 minutes or so to read through them and completely absorb their content. 5 million in the bank and debt free. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3dYS7PcAG4. I hope he stores his $400k a year in the same bag with his shit. I tried. Nice to have options, anyway. Actually, scratch that. Here's a place to talk about how to groom their cute little money mustaches, along with your own parental mustache. Meet Mr. Money Mustache “I’m going to teach you a radical new way to think about and enjoy money that will get you off of your current debt-powered treadmill and into a lifestyle that is completely unimaginable to most people where I live, which happens to be in the United States, ground zero for self-imposed treadmills. Join Facebook to connect with Mr. Money Mustache and others you may know. Sounds like shaky ground to me…as I’ve seen many a young lady grow old at the expense of a non-commital man…and be out on the streets by themselves when your man wants kids and you can’t. We as physicians spent a very very long time to learn and be able to do what we do. airports, harbors and highway systems are often poorly designed, built, maintained, and funded. 31412 Posts 1371 Topics Last post by Fishindude in Re: Factoring College in... on Today at 12:06:30 PM Taxes. Probably not. But yeah, your completely on point that not every speciality has this option. Run through his archive page from the very beginning and readers will notice a progression from publishing shorter, but more numerous, blog postings to numbers that more closely resemble one a week. Also love it because I love DIY and, honestly, my dream life involves being that person in Alaska building my own cabin…I do intend to reach financial independence as soon as possible so I can have my medical career on my terms: family time and the opportunity for international work that’s hard to get when almost maxing out a $400K salary. Stark difference, bud. That’s it. This exasperation came mainly from him having been retired a full six years, living happily with his children and wife, while his friends complained about how little money they had. Mr. Money Mustache may be frugal, but he's high income. His stoic nature would allow him to emerge like gold if there was a bout of serious financial adversity. My main takeaway from reading his articles is not to sell my car and ride a bike everywhere, but to spend my money wisely on things or experiences that legitimately add happiness to my life. Bot WCI and MMM have great ideas and both will get you there. Perhaps I conflated these two stories. And he advocates asking yourself if you’ve ever experienced the satisfaction of doing your own work. I haven’t done that very often. Yes, you read that right. Medicine is just not what I had hoped it was going to be. Thanks for stopping by and sharing your thoughts. This is what I think you’ve missed: it’s NOT a choice between stuffing every penny into investments vs. buying stuff to make you happy. There are two major points that I see his “haters” misunderstanding. I have my own little blog here at ThinkSaveRetire.com (less than a month old as of the time of this writing) that chronicles my journey towards the same worthy goal of jobless badassity (a term that I usually change to "badassery"). Will I? © 2021 - The White Coat Investor – Investing & Personal Finance for Doctors. We’re happy with the amount we’re spending.” We take an international trip every year, live in a nice, spacious condo in the city, and buy whatever we want almost whenever we want, yet we’re still only spending 20-30% of our net income. If I live a MMM-style existence, I’m financially independent from ever having to work again. This requires an investment account of $750,000 to sustain. With nothing but Jolly Ranchers. Sure, his perspective is extreme and nearly impossible for the vast majority of people, particularly high earning physicians. For most, they would acquire debt…and with stupid interest rates at that. I love the article, but I have to disagree with one point. Europe, 42, FI since 2016 5 years ago. Does that fact that many doctors hate their jobs mean that your blog is bogus? I love the work I do now. I’ve never liked defining myself by the job I do. If your work sucks, the solution isn't necessarily to save some crazy percentage of your income so you can quit working ASAP. I could probably work into my 70s BUT the stress of running a business and dealing with staff and parents just grinds on you. Mr. Money Mustache is the alias of a forty-one-year-old Canadian expatriate named Peter Adeney, who made or, more to the point, saved enough money in his twenties, working as a … The root of what he’s preaching is to live way within your means as a way to be free from having to work. I’d rather be free to do what I want with my time and money than have to limit spending in order to proclaim myself officially financially independent according to someone else’s definition. The Frugal Physician: 5 Steps to Becoming Debt Free. I appreciate the “shockingly simple math behind early retirement”, but I am not nearly as frugal as MMM and his wife. Just my two cents…. Well, here's the deal. Noone ever died of a crooked tooth. He’s been a great role model for me in my formative post-grad years, as I no longer feel expected to compete with the (Dr.) Jones’ in my life. I did find a place that does rent real wakeboats comparable to mine in some surrounding states for $2800-3800 per day. I asked him recently if he thought we should spend more money and he said “Why? kill off the loans. Some of his advice isn’t really practical, but that’s OK. He’s already given me a lot to think about for my next car purchase, for instance. The Frugal Physician: Self-Serving or Self-Denying? I assume that’s what you think I meant to say when I wrote: There is plenty of waste in life, but sometimes wasted time is more expensive than wasted money, especially for a high earner. He and his wife graduated from college and were making a decent amount of money. To be fair, I love how he writes, find many of his articles useful and am actually trying to read more about the stoic way of life… I agree that the commentators on his blog can be a bit extreme and somewhat mindless and a bit of “you are American so you must be stupid” (I can say this as an immigrant myself that things are not that rosy in other parts of the world and am incredibly fortunate to be truly living the American Dream). Attitude adjustments go a long way. I was perusing the Mr. Money Mustache blog the other night on a slow night shift. (We first met at a swanky dinner paid for by somebody else.) There are a lot of odd people out in “The Bush.”. Refinance Medical School Loans & Consolidation Guide, Frugal Living with The Frugal Physician - Podcast #122, 10 Things That Matter Most In Personal Finance. Â My wife and I have made dramatic changes in our lifestyle thanks in large part to the motivation that his blog gave us. #475: Mr. Money Mustache — Living Beautifully on $25-27K Per Year (Repost) Let me summarize it again: Avoid waste. And all this comes without the slightest sense of deprivation or scarcity. HSA Accounts. Probably not. I think you fundamentally misunderstand, and misrepresent, what MMM is about. I appreciate the fact that he sets an extreme perspective, but it’s also very easy to compromise his philosophy to fit your own lifestyles and goals. Been waiting years for this post. I’m not discouraging you from your current plan, I just want you to know the burn out can get better, and hopefully in a few years you’ll be able to find some satisfaction in what you do. It means that other peoples’ money no longer dictates what you do with your time. Welcome to Alaska. Spend your money on what makes you happy and conversely, don't spend money on what doesn't make you any happier. The distinction between MMM and Pete is very important. Â He does this to save gas. Timely article Jim! I’d rewrite point 4 to be, ‘for Mustachians one of the main focuses is not wasting money on things you don’t need or that don’t make you happier.” That’s very very different than a ‘scarcity mindset.’ Put more simply, a key element of Mustachianism is not embracing scarcity, or becoming a miser, but rejecting consumerism. Mr. Money Mustache put this key principle into context for The Motley Fool: There's really only one factor in how long your mandatory working career needs to be: your savings rate, as a … I loved this article and I’d consider myself a Mustachian wanna-be, but I can’t commit to it 100% (I’m not biking in slush and getting up an hour earlier). For me, many of my family members, and many of my friends, our careers are one of the great satisfactions in our life. And yes, I saw your summary of the MMM philosophy. Obviously there is an internet persona there, but you seem to be suggesting it is far more of a front than I had thought. I get this whole vibe from reading Pete's story and the stories of those on his site and forum that they hate (or in many cases, hated) their jobs. We think interesting thoughts. Doing things the hard way takes more time and energy and planning (mental energy) that may be able to be used in a better way that will contribute more to your happiness, your relationships, and the community around you. I didn’t do it to save money; rather to prove to myself that even a lowly, non-interventional flea can break a sweat with manual labor. He has more money (I think) and spends less of it. And frankly, friends who have recently gotten into bicycling clearly have as much enjoyment on their low-rent Jamis bikes as the prissy weight-wienies who feel the need to get new bikes every couple of years and who sit around laughing at MMM’s crummy ride. Then I pay taxes on it. For example, I followed a link to the blog of a young retired attorney who followed a similar path to early retirement as Mr. Money Mustache. Â How about in your 40s. After a few weeks, I realized that if you do not have meaningful work, even leisure starts to feel like work. For example, prominent FIRE advocate Mr. Money Mustache’s family spends about $30,000 a year according to his blog. But, I won’t sacrifice fun in the meantime just to retire early. Â In fact, it was his blog that finally got me off my ass earlier in the year to get my financial shit together and quit spending money on stuff that will certainly delay my drive towards capturing lifelong jobless bliss. I am about to start on an extract witbeer with blackberry in the secondary. However, with ** years into training, $400K in debt, and mouths to feed, my options are limited. Â Good for him, hard work deserves to be rewarded, though I've admittedly never been a fan of mustaches. Took the whole weekend, I cut every knuckle on both hands, but that damned disposal kept working at least until we sold the house last year. Mr. Money Mustache frequently extols the virtues of a walk or bike ride in a blizzard, working in his woodshop, or brewing his own beer. I don’t see where I stated that a surgeon who is not practicing medicine is wasting time. Part of this is I have dramatically reduced my fixed costs (food, utilities, insurance, etc) but it is also a matter of attitude. I love my job and I love the way my life looks now that I’m out of residency. If you have been around this whole early retirement business long enough online, chances are good that you have run across a web site called Mr. Money Mustache. MMM lives an extremely frugal lifestyle - certainly more frugal than I am living now and probably ever will live. Your email address will not be published. Meanwhile, a person with the extreme opposite philosophy might become irritated if he ever has to travel in less than a first-class airplane seat or stay in less than a five star hotel or drink sub-$500-per-bottle wine. It’s a very distorted example, and you’re not accounting for any of the built in costs of that transaction. It irks me the way he writes about how every $1 saved today is magically going to become $10 in 20 years, etc. I really like Pete (yes, he actually does have a name) from meeting him both in-person and online. So I’m a fan of MMM. Many people seem stuck on the idea of retiring early and “being forced to do the same thing for the next 50 years.” What? Instead of spending 2 hours on a grocery store run on your bike, perhaps you could run down and back in 30 minutes and spend an hour and a half volunteering at the school. With the MMM philosophy, I consider myself to be pretty darn rich on the resident salary with extra cash to burn on some mind-blowingly ridiculous vacations. If you had 10 million in the bank would you be working the night shift and dealing with drug-seekers? Mini Money Mustaches. Â I'm talking thousands of hits a month. 1) “Retiring early” is just one possible outcome of the REAL goal : Financial Independence. I think there's a great deal of wisdom there. Really? I followed my dad into his practice 25 years ago, but what we’re doing now is 180 degrees from what he did in the 70’s and 80’s. Work is what it is. Simply not available. Let me sum it up in a nutshell. Another option is to pay money to buy time. But there are some options. I do want to achieve FI as soon as possible and will be using a combination of WCI and MMM advice to get there, but I also will ALWAYS WORK – Taking care of patients will always bring meaning to my life! Â Through serious investments and a solid savings plan, the math proves how possible it is to quit the damn rat race sooner rather than later. uh, what I said is the exact opposite of ‘Internet Retirement Police’. I agree that’s different from a scarcity mindset. I don’t know– maybe as an attending I’ll discover joy in patient care again…but I do know, with MMM’s theology, I can always have that card in my back pocket. In addition, First, because you look for to hedge your net-worth against the travel of the Dollar potency, which is assumed by many people to inevitably happen at roughly example. They would fall further into debt because many already have heaps of debt. You infer that MM and MMMers hate(d) their jobs. Mr Money Mustache noemt als tip om vermogen op te bouwen dat je minder geld moet uitgeven dan er binnenkomt. It’s a powerful, life-changing adjustment in perspective. Sometimes it is hard. http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10/02/what-is-stoicism-and-how-can-it-turn-your-life-to-solid-gold/, Fire Your Financial Advisor Online Course. Good job, though it’s odd that you then spent the majority of your post undermining MMM. Going to Lake Powell in my 13-year-old, $6K, 135 HP boat is pretty fun too. The brain is a mysterious black box after all. Mr. Money Mustache frequently extols the virtues of a walk or bike ride in a blizzard, working in his woodshop, or brewing his own beer. He must not be taking the criticism well. MMM’s point is that there is a deep pleasure in doing things yourself, by your own wits and motive power. It’s a powerful message, and it upsets people who have committed to the conventional wisdom, and who are stuck in the mindset that they need to care what someone else will think of their bicycle. So, when I hit my FIRE number, and my side gig consistently generated more income than my surgical salary, I decided to turn in my scrubs. He has trained himself to find great joy in these simple things. Â Forget retiring in your 60s. Nothing on any lake around here. Kevin, make that 2 docs who want their kid to go into medicine. . I don’t know that stay at home parenting would be my idea of retirement though . Many people could benefit from the principles espoused by Mr. Money Mustache. I had hoped it was the summer between the two disagree with it completely gives people the power share... Between not working and not having to work longer dictates what you find useful leave. Working 2 days of work a week contributions too the planet, and on and on quite comfortable–way MMM. 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